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	<title>Comments on: For whom the bell tolls?</title>
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	<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/</link>
	<description>Work is just something I do between bike rides</description>
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		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/comment-page-1/#comment-1221</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#comment-1221</guid>
		<description>&lt;p class=&quot;aside&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Closing comments due to excessive spam received on this entry.&lt;br /&gt;I can&#039;t imagine why, but there you go&#8230;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="aside"><i>Closing comments due to excessive spam received on this entry.<br />I can&#8217;t imagine why, but there you go&hellip;</i></p>
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		<title>By: eccles</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/comment-page-1/#comment-1220</link>
		<dc:creator>eccles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#comment-1220</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ChrisL: Actually, I&#039;ve found that its really hard to make out what people are saying as they go past - was that &quot;passing&quot; or &quot;pisshead&quot; or &quot;money is coming out of your pocket&quot;? . My preference would just be to pass someone smoothly when you have space...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ChrisL: Actually, I&#8217;ve found that its really hard to make out what people are saying as they go past &#8211; was that &#8220;passing&#8221; or &#8220;pisshead&#8221; or &#8220;money is coming out of your pocket&#8221;? . My preference would just be to pass someone smoothly when you have space&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris L</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If I ever rode on shared paths (and thank the lord I don&#039;t, sir), I wouldn&#039;t bother using the bell to begin with.  The human voice is a far more flexible and effective warning device.  It comes with volume and tone that can be adjusted as the situation requires, and can be used in such a way to send a far clearer message than the often ambiguous sound that comes from bells.  A simple &quot;excuse me&quot; or &quot;passing on the right&quot; sends a far clearer message.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That said, if someone sat closely behind me without overtaking, I doubt I&#039;d be too impressed either.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I ever rode on shared paths (and thank the lord I don&#8217;t, sir), I wouldn&#8217;t bother using the bell to begin with.  The human voice is a far more flexible and effective warning device.  It comes with volume and tone that can be adjusted as the situation requires, and can be used in such a way to send a far clearer message than the often ambiguous sound that comes from bells.  A simple &#8220;excuse me&#8221; or &#8220;passing on the right&#8221; sends a far clearer message.</p>

<p>That said, if someone sat closely behind me without overtaking, I doubt I&#8217;d be too impressed either.</p>
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		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/comment-page-1/#comment-1218</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#comment-1218</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve said before that I appreciate the intelligent comments that I receive on this blog, and I&#039;d particularly like to reiterate that in regard to this post&#8212;you&#039;ve really given me something to think about. As I said right at the top, I honestly thought my intentions were pretty obvious but it appears that I&#039;ve just been confusing people (and more than likely pissing them off at the same time). So it&#039;s re-think time.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From my point of view, a warning bell when approaching blind corners is as much (or even more) about self-preservation as it is about courtesy and concern for other riders. As I said in the post, my main worry is being taken down as collateral damage in the event of a head-on collision between other riders who appear to be less concerned about blind corners than I am. I honestly think that ringing from the second position is justified, but if it causes distraction and/or aggravation then it&#039;s just not worth it. If I&#039;m tucked in behind someone who doesn&#039;t have the same survival instinct, then maybe taking the belling into my own hands (thumbs?) isn&#039;t necessarily the answer.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Clearly other self-preservation tactics are required, so I&#039;m going to adjust my riding behaviour: whenever I&#039;m behind someone who &lt;strong&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/strong&gt; ring their own warning on blind corners, I&#039;ll take that as a clear indication of that rider&#039;s lack of ability and safety awareness and will treat them as someone to avoid&#8212;and instead of trying to do them a favour by bell-ringing from behind, I&#039;ll back off to a safe distance and get past them when I can. When you think about it, following someone closely into a blind corner is a pretty dicey sort of thing to do anyway, even after sounding a warning bell.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In response to hielke&#039;s comments about the &quot;strange and redundant&quot; way that Australian cyclists (sometimes, though not always) warn when passing, I can&#039;t do better than refer to Andrew Hammel&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_joys/2006/01/the_awesome_pow.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Meaning of Bicycle Bells&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;As I found out, bicycle etiquette is different in Germany (or at least in my part of Germany) than it is in the U.S.  If you can bicycle past someone and leave a meter between you and them, you just do it without saying anything&#8230;You ring the bell only when the people walking on the trail have to move in order to let you ride by.  That is, you will hit them, or will have to stop, if they don&#039;t move to the side&#8230;So when I rang the bell, the message I was sending them was &quot;I do not have full control of my bicycle, and might run into you unless you move right now!&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So it&#039;s just a cultural difference: unlike people in Germany (and perhaps Europe in general?) for whatever reason, people on shared pathways in this country seem to prefer to get a warning every time they are overtaken by a bike. As a regular and habitual bell-ringer I am often thanked for my courtesy by pedestrians and cyclists that I pass.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Oh yeah, and I love that video that tim found: I&#039;ll be recycling it at the top of my next speedlink entry.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said before that I appreciate the intelligent comments that I receive on this blog, and I&#8217;d particularly like to reiterate that in regard to this post&mdash;you&#8217;ve really given me something to think about. As I said right at the top, I honestly thought my intentions were pretty obvious but it appears that I&#8217;ve just been confusing people (and more than likely pissing them off at the same time). So it&#8217;s re-think time.</p>

<p>From my point of view, a warning bell when approaching blind corners is as much (or even more) about self-preservation as it is about courtesy and concern for other riders. As I said in the post, my main worry is being taken down as collateral damage in the event of a head-on collision between other riders who appear to be less concerned about blind corners than I am. I honestly think that ringing from the second position is justified, but if it causes distraction and/or aggravation then it&#8217;s just not worth it. If I&#8217;m tucked in behind someone who doesn&#8217;t have the same survival instinct, then maybe taking the belling into my own hands (thumbs?) isn&#8217;t necessarily the answer.</p>

<p>Clearly other self-preservation tactics are required, so I&#8217;m going to adjust my riding behaviour: whenever I&#8217;m behind someone who <strong>doesn&#8217;t</strong> ring their own warning on blind corners, I&#8217;ll take that as a clear indication of that rider&#8217;s lack of ability and safety awareness and will treat them as someone to avoid&mdash;and instead of trying to do them a favour by bell-ringing from behind, I&#8217;ll back off to a safe distance and get past them when I can. When you think about it, following someone closely into a blind corner is a pretty dicey sort of thing to do anyway, even after sounding a warning bell.</p>

<p>In response to hielke&#8217;s comments about the &#8220;strange and redundant&#8221; way that Australian cyclists (sometimes, though not always) warn when passing, I can&#8217;t do better than refer to Andrew Hammel&#8217;s <a href="http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_joys/2006/01/the_awesome_pow.html" rel="nofollow">The Meaning of Bicycle Bells</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>As I found out, bicycle etiquette is different in Germany (or at least in my part of Germany) than it is in the U.S.  If you can bicycle past someone and leave a meter between you and them, you just do it without saying anything&hellip;You ring the bell only when the people walking on the trail have to move in order to let you ride by.  That is, you will hit them, or will have to stop, if they don&#8217;t move to the side&hellip;So when I rang the bell, the message I was sending them was &#8220;I do not have full control of my bicycle, and might run into you unless you move right now!&#8221;</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So it&#8217;s just a cultural difference: unlike people in Germany (and perhaps Europe in general?) for whatever reason, people on shared pathways in this country seem to prefer to get a warning every time they are overtaken by a bike. As a regular and habitual bell-ringer I am often thanked for my courtesy by pedestrians and cyclists that I pass.</p>

<p>Oh yeah, and I love that video that tim found: I&#8217;ll be recycling it at the top of my next speedlink entry.</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/comment-page-1/#comment-1217</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.net/2008/02/19/for-whom-the-bell-tolls/#comment-1217</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s arguably good practice to toot the horn of your car before a blind corner on a narrow road, in case of oncoming traffic. Not many people do.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If I was driving slowly on a narrow road and had somebody sitting behind me blowing their horn, oncoming traffic would be the last reason on my mind.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Likewise in your circumstance. Ringing the bell at a blind corner is a sensible practice; ringing the bell to pass - with or without aggression - is common practice. Your overtakee&#039;s response was quite understandable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Funny youtube video of out-of-context responses to bike bells:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnL4fjMzsSU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;linky&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;tim&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s arguably good practice to toot the horn of your car before a blind corner on a narrow road, in case of oncoming traffic. Not many people do.</p>

<p>If I was driving slowly on a narrow road and had somebody sitting behind me blowing their horn, oncoming traffic would be the last reason on my mind.</p>

<p>Likewise in your circumstance. Ringing the bell at a blind corner is a sensible practice; ringing the bell to pass &#8211; with or without aggression &#8211; is common practice. Your overtakee&#8217;s response was quite understandable.</p>

<p>Funny youtube video of out-of-context responses to bike bells:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnL4fjMzsSU" rel="nofollow">linky</a></p>

<p>tim</p>
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