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	<title>Comments on: On being bike lane agnostic</title>
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	<link>http://treadly.net/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/</link>
	<description>Work is just something I do between bike rides</description>
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		<title>By: YarraBUG Radio Show</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/comment-page-1/#comment-889</link>
		<dc:creator>YarraBUG Radio Show</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/#comment-889</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Right, image courtesy of Treadly.net [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Right, image courtesy of Treadly.net [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/comment-page-1/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/#comment-888</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I understand where groups like BV are coming from&#8212;it&#039;s a question of producing usable sound bites. If you&#039;ve only got a few seconds to get a message out, there is no room for ifs and maybes&#8212;you&#039;ve got to be brief and unequivocal. Harry Barber is a master of this approach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However as the insightful comments above show, the issues surrounding bike lanes are many and complex, and aren&#039;t adequately covered by snatches &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/lost-riders/2007/07/14/1183833833647.html?page=fullpage&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;like this&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Barber says more dedicated cycling lanes for commuters on key arterial routes into the city are needed, and &quot;separation&quot; from cars is crucial: 78 per cent of accidents involve cyclists crashing into car doors as they are being carelessly opened.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This ignores that &quot;separation&quot; simply is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; going to happen everywhere&#8212;somewhere, sometime just about every rider will have to deal with other forms of traffic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And let&#039;s not forget, as jimmay notes, that bike lanes often bring cyclists into the door zone.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But those &lt;a href=&quot;http://home.swbell.net/mpion/bikesusefulllane.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;signs&lt;/a&gt; that Rob pointed to could be very helpful (although I&#039;d skip the time designations).&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand where groups like BV are coming from&mdash;it&#8217;s a question of producing usable sound bites. If you&#8217;ve only got a few seconds to get a message out, there is no room for ifs and maybes&mdash;you&#8217;ve got to be brief and unequivocal. Harry Barber is a master of this approach.</p>

<p>However as the insightful comments above show, the issues surrounding bike lanes are many and complex, and aren&#8217;t adequately covered by snatches <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/lost-riders/2007/07/14/1183833833647.html?page=fullpage" rel="nofollow">like this</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Barber says more dedicated cycling lanes for commuters on key arterial routes into the city are needed, and &#8220;separation&#8221; from cars is crucial: 78 per cent of accidents involve cyclists crashing into car doors as they are being carelessly opened.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This ignores that &#8220;separation&#8221; simply is <em>not</em> going to happen everywhere&mdash;somewhere, sometime just about every rider will have to deal with other forms of traffic.</p>

<p>And let&#8217;s not forget, as jimmay notes, that bike lanes often bring cyclists into the door zone.</p>

<p>But those <a href="http://home.swbell.net/mpion/bikesusefulllane.html" rel="nofollow">signs</a> that Rob pointed to could be very helpful (although I&#8217;d skip the time designations).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/comment-page-1/#comment-887</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/#comment-887</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The implications of bicycle lanes on roads are far reaching and sadly produce outcomes not favourable to bicyclists.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To encourage new riders cities and organisations like Bicycle Victoria promote on road bicycle lanes and separation from motorised traffic. To appease motoring lobbies they do the same.
The losers are the riders themselves who suffer drivers believing riders have no place as legitmate traffic whilst they have on road bike lanes or &quot;&lt;em&gt;facilitie&lt;/em&gt;s&quot; built for them at great and  unnecessary expense.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Research from learned researchers and commentators like Forrester (et al),  show bicycle riders fair best when bicycles are &quot;&lt;strong&gt;driven&lt;/strong&gt;&quot; in a vehicular manner on the roadway.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cities could do better by adopting signage that positively directs drivers attention to bicycles having full lane useage and drivers should change lanes to pass etc. (Such as these mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://home.swbell.net/mpion/bikesusefulllane.html &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.. ). These more positive approaches redirect drivers and riders attention away from the bicycle  being a vulnerable unwanted road user to becoming a valid and legitmate &quot;vehicle&quot; in every sense of the word.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I share your agnostic view whilst cities and organisations that should know better continue to place bicycle riders at risk by introducing more and more so called &quot;separation&quot; facillities.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The implications of bicycle lanes on roads are far reaching and sadly produce outcomes not favourable to bicyclists.</p>

<p>To encourage new riders cities and organisations like Bicycle Victoria promote on road bicycle lanes and separation from motorised traffic. To appease motoring lobbies they do the same.
The losers are the riders themselves who suffer drivers believing riders have no place as legitmate traffic whilst they have on road bike lanes or &#8220;<em>facilitie</em>s&#8221; built for them at great and  unnecessary expense.</p>

<p>Research from learned researchers and commentators like Forrester (et al),  show bicycle riders fair best when bicycles are &#8220;<strong>driven</strong>&#8221; in a vehicular manner on the roadway.</p>

<p>Cities could do better by adopting signage that positively directs drivers attention to bicycles having full lane useage and drivers should change lanes to pass etc. (Such as these mentioned <a href="http://home.swbell.net/mpion/bikesusefulllane.html " rel="nofollow">here</a>.. ). These more positive approaches redirect drivers and riders attention away from the bicycle  being a vulnerable unwanted road user to becoming a valid and legitmate &#8220;vehicle&#8221; in every sense of the word.</p>

<p>I share your agnostic view whilst cities and organisations that should know better continue to place bicycle riders at risk by introducing more and more so called &#8220;separation&#8221; facillities.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmay</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/comment-page-1/#comment-886</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 07:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/2007/07/20/on-being-bike-lane-agnostic/#comment-886</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am somewhat ambivalent also, especially somewhere like Elizabeth street.  On the plus, the lanes give cyclists a legitimacy that can be missing on other streets such as King St.  On the minus, they actively encourage a cyclist to be where they shouldn&#039;t -- in the door zone.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The experienced cyclist will use the lanes as if they weren&#039;t painted there, but I think it takes a couple of scares to get there.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would certainly like to see BV and other bodies issue guidelines for bike lanes designed to reduce common types of accidents:
* Reduce merges from bike lanes (slow) with faster motor traffic approaching from behind.
* Avoid T-intersections.
* Maintain sight lines -- do not encourage cyclists to ride on the extreme left of roundabouts and T intersections.
* Do not put bicycle lanes in the door zone.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think a well designed bike lane would teach cyclists how to ride in traffic.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am somewhat ambivalent also, especially somewhere like Elizabeth street.  On the plus, the lanes give cyclists a legitimacy that can be missing on other streets such as King St.  On the minus, they actively encourage a cyclist to be where they shouldn&#8217;t &#8212; in the door zone.</p>

<p>The experienced cyclist will use the lanes as if they weren&#8217;t painted there, but I think it takes a couple of scares to get there.</p>

<p>I would certainly like to see BV and other bodies issue guidelines for bike lanes designed to reduce common types of accidents:
* Reduce merges from bike lanes (slow) with faster motor traffic approaching from behind.
* Avoid T-intersections.
* Maintain sight lines &#8212; do not encourage cyclists to ride on the extreme left of roundabouts and T intersections.
* Do not put bicycle lanes in the door zone.</p>

<p>I think a well designed bike lane would teach cyclists how to ride in traffic.</p>
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