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	<title>Comments on: Look-out pedestrians! Speeding cyclists are out to get you!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/</link>
	<description>Work is just something I do between bike rides</description>
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		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/comment-page-1/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=224#comment-342</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;q&gt;&#8230;safer than potting mix&lt;/q&gt;&#8212;I&#039;m still chuckling about that! I hope you don&#039;t mind if I borrow that one.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><q>&hellip;safer than potting mix</q>&mdash;I&#8217;m still chuckling about that! I hope you don&#8217;t mind if I borrow that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Crowlie</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/comment-page-1/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>Crowlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=224#comment-341</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I must say I&#039;m feeling very spoiled regarding the standard of drivers around my area. It might be because they&#039;re amused at the sight of somebody&#039;s mum out pedalling on a long back road, but they&#039;re really very polite. Bipping to let me know they&#039;re coming and overtaking with plenty of space.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There was that one bloke who nearly took me out with an oversized trailer. His humongous 4wd was obviously having a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt; of trouble in the high wind, so he was a real hazard for everyone. There was also the speeding semi and the slipstream, but that&#039;s a wake up anywhere.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I agree with your observation about track users sorting out sharing tracks for themselves. Too often we are used to having legislation hanging around our necks instead of simply working out how to share and relate to other users of public space.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think (this might shock you) the Herald-Sun is really interested in the safety of pedestrians. One death in 30 years of the hell ride, that&#039;s safer than potting mix. In comparison how many pedestrians and cyclists have been killed in that time by drivers, yet where is the media hysterics shrieking for more and better bike lanes, footpaths, public transport etc? Too much advertising money involved.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And that&#039;s why I read blogs instead of tabloids. ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I must say I&#8217;m feeling very spoiled regarding the standard of drivers around my area. It might be because they&#8217;re amused at the sight of somebody&#8217;s mum out pedalling on a long back road, but they&#8217;re really very polite. Bipping to let me know they&#8217;re coming and overtaking with plenty of space.</p>

<p>There was that one bloke who nearly took me out with an oversized trailer. His humongous 4wd was obviously having a <em>lot</em> of trouble in the high wind, so he was a real hazard for everyone. There was also the speeding semi and the slipstream, but that&#8217;s a wake up anywhere.</p>

<p>I agree with your observation about track users sorting out sharing tracks for themselves. Too often we are used to having legislation hanging around our necks instead of simply working out how to share and relate to other users of public space.</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t think (this might shock you) the Herald-Sun is really interested in the safety of pedestrians. One death in 30 years of the hell ride, that&#8217;s safer than potting mix. In comparison how many pedestrians and cyclists have been killed in that time by drivers, yet where is the media hysterics shrieking for more and better bike lanes, footpaths, public transport etc? Too much advertising money involved.</p>

<p>And that&#8217;s why I read blogs instead of tabloids. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: pedaller</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>pedaller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=224#comment-340</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, I&#039;m glad to see someone else picking up on reporting styles, I think it&#039;s important.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thanks for clearing up the road rules. While we have Australian Road Rules in place, each state has implemented them differently so it&#039;s good to note the differences as we find them.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;m glad to see someone else picking up on reporting styles, I think it&#8217;s important.</p>

<p>Thanks for clearing up the road rules. While we have Australian Road Rules in place, each state has implemented them differently so it&#8217;s good to note the differences as we find them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/comment-page-1/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=224#comment-339</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;pedaller, I didn&#039;t really want to get bogged down on this sort of media reporting, but it&#039;s just so shabby I couldn&#039;t help myself&#8230;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On the speed-limit, my understanding (via &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bv.com.au/change-the-world/11011/#Southbank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bicycle Victoria&lt;/a&gt;) is that:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;

  &lt;p&gt;The &lt;em&gt;advisory&lt;/em&gt; speed limit is 10kph which is appropriate for a high use pedestrian zone&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt; [emphasis added]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I deduce from this that Southbank does not qualify as a shared traffic zone as defined in the road rules and that speed limits are not really enforceable there. If this is the case then the use of a speed limit sign as used on the roads is misleading&#8212;perhaps deliberately so, in an attempt to bluff people into believing that a limit really applies.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But little mind games like that only lead to frustration and complications:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;

&lt;li&gt;speedometers are not compulsory on bikes&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;li&gt;should joggers get fined for exceeding the speed limit?&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;li&gt;walkers get frustrated at all this abuse of the (non-existent, non-enforceable) speed limit&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;li&gt;and so on&#8230;&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I should have said above that I was starting from this assumption, that the speed limit is an advisory maximum speed and is therefore non-enforceable. That being the case, the real question is not whether cyclists exceed the speed limit rather it is do cyclists ride in a manner suitable to the conditions? And until I see some &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; evidence to the contrary, I&#039;m going to assume that most of them do&#8212;as &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/09/20/swanston-st-pedestrian-collision/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my experience last week&lt;/a&gt; emphasises, no cyclist wants a close-encounter with a pedestrian because in all probability it&#039;s the cyclist who will come off(!) second-best.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pedaller, I didn&#8217;t really want to get bogged down on this sort of media reporting, but it&#8217;s just so shabby I couldn&#8217;t help myself&hellip;</p>

<p>On the speed-limit, my understanding (via <a href="http://www.bv.com.au/change-the-world/11011/#Southbank" rel="nofollow">Bicycle Victoria</a>) is that:</p>

<blockquote>

  <p>The <em>advisory</em> speed limit is 10kph which is appropriate for a high use pedestrian zone<br /><small> [emphasis added]</small></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I deduce from this that Southbank does not qualify as a shared traffic zone as defined in the road rules and that speed limits are not really enforceable there. If this is the case then the use of a speed limit sign as used on the roads is misleading&mdash;perhaps deliberately so, in an attempt to bluff people into believing that a limit really applies.</p>

<p>But little mind games like that only lead to frustration and complications:</p>

<ul>

<li>speedometers are not compulsory on bikes</li>

<li>should joggers get fined for exceeding the speed limit?</li>

<li>walkers get frustrated at all this abuse of the (non-existent, non-enforceable) speed limit</li>

<li>and so on&hellip;</li>

</ul>

<p>I should have said above that I was starting from this assumption, that the speed limit is an advisory maximum speed and is therefore non-enforceable. That being the case, the real question is not whether cyclists exceed the speed limit rather it is do cyclists ride in a manner suitable to the conditions? And until I see some <em>real</em> evidence to the contrary, I&#8217;m going to assume that most of them do&mdash;as <a href="/2006/09/20/swanston-st-pedestrian-collision/" rel="nofollow">my experience last week</a> emphasises, no cyclist wants a close-encounter with a pedestrian because in all probability it&#8217;s the cyclist who will come off(!) second-best.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/09/25/look-out-pedestrians/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=224#comment-338</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bikes are for roads&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well Timboy, I don&#039;t agree. A bike is a very flexible vehicle that can be suitable for mixing it with pedestrians on shared trails or with cars on the roads, depending on the circumstances and the rider&#039;s fitness, ability and purpose.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;While I can&#039;t really see the attraction of riding along the crowded Southbank on a busy day and I hardly ever go that way myself, I appreciate that social riders could see it as a good spot to stop for coffee. I suppose it&#039;s also used as a direct route by some commuters, although I reckon City Rd probably offers a faster option for most people.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As to the influence of the media on people&#039;s attitudes, it&#039;s hard to measure but I&#039;m inclined to agree that it makes things tough for all of us (indeed, that was the thrust of the &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/08/31/james-gould/#why-public-opinion-matters&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comments I made&lt;/a&gt; when the Hell Ride was in the headlines). I wonder if we&#039;ve also become more aware of abuse now&#8212;kind of expecting it to happen? Whatever is going on, anything that makes people less concerned for the safety of other roads users is not a good thing.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
  <p>Bikes are for roads</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Well Timboy, I don&#8217;t agree. A bike is a very flexible vehicle that can be suitable for mixing it with pedestrians on shared trails or with cars on the roads, depending on the circumstances and the rider&#8217;s fitness, ability and purpose.</p>

<p>While I can&#8217;t really see the attraction of riding along the crowded Southbank on a busy day and I hardly ever go that way myself, I appreciate that social riders could see it as a good spot to stop for coffee. I suppose it&#8217;s also used as a direct route by some commuters, although I reckon City Rd probably offers a faster option for most people.</p>

<p>As to the influence of the media on people&#8217;s attitudes, it&#8217;s hard to measure but I&#8217;m inclined to agree that it makes things tough for all of us (indeed, that was the thrust of the <a href="/2006/08/31/james-gould/#why-public-opinion-matters" rel="nofollow">comments I made</a> when the Hell Ride was in the headlines). I wonder if we&#8217;ve also become more aware of abuse now&mdash;kind of expecting it to happen? Whatever is going on, anything that makes people less concerned for the safety of other roads users is not a good thing.</p>
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