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	<title>Comments on: The death of a pedestrian makes hell for all riders</title>
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	<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/</link>
	<description>Work is just something I do between bike rides</description>
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		<title>By: Pip Smibert</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Pip Smibert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 06:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=211#comment-301</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All is not necessarily as it seems! Now that the inquest is over, and we are waiting for the coroner&#039;s report, something to think about.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My group came upon the James Gould accident shortly after it happened, and the body was 30 meters east of the crossing, on the Mordialloc side - he was apparently (and I say apparently) hit BEFORE the crossing. This might explain why the cyclist has only been charged with running a light, and not manslaughter.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If this is what happened then running the light had NOTHING to do with the accident or the death. In fact, if the accident occurred BEFORE the crossing, then it was the pedestrian who recklessly put his own health and others at risk by walking out, with his hands up saying &quot;red light&quot; - and he paid a high price for it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have ridden in the Hell Ride (it used to be called the Frankston Derby), and they are fast and dangerous. BUT there are not 200, and while they do 60 ks at times, that is the speed limit. A friend who was there that day, but didn&#039;t see the accident, said they were slowing down for the light when some riders came round the outside, and it looks like Gould was hit then - but BEFORE the crossing. For manslaughter there has to be reckless conduct leading to death. No reckless conduct - then no manslaughter.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, the big issue is the media coverage. Sam Elder, the daughter of a good friend, was killed in January, hit from behind by a car travelling too close. She fell, he killed her. A genuine accident. Another young man, Anton Bartlett, was hit from behind the same day and died, and that was culpable driving - but their deaths each got one column inch on page 10.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;James Gould&#039;s death, apparently caused by his own reckless behaviour, got pages and pages of hysteria, police presence, puffing and blowing from Harry Barber and all the other social cyclists. If a cyclist had been killed as a result of this event, what would have been the reaction - we don&#039;t have to wonder at all. One column inch on page 10.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We need balance. Two pedestrians, to my knowledge, have died being hit by a bicycle. One was a stupid person who stepped in front of a racing triathlete (I think Dean Woods from memory); the other was James Gould, and his facts are yet to come out. I think his story will fade away, and we will never hear the facts becuase it doesn&#039;t make a good story. It will become an urban myth - but a completely wrong urban myth that does none of us any good whatsoever. All the time cyclists are being killed by cars - and on Beach Road we had people winding the window down and calling us &quot;murderers&quot;!!!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Pip&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All is not necessarily as it seems! Now that the inquest is over, and we are waiting for the coroner&#8217;s report, something to think about.</p>

<p>My group came upon the James Gould accident shortly after it happened, and the body was 30 meters east of the crossing, on the Mordialloc side &#8211; he was apparently (and I say apparently) hit BEFORE the crossing. This might explain why the cyclist has only been charged with running a light, and not manslaughter.</p>

<p>If this is what happened then running the light had NOTHING to do with the accident or the death. In fact, if the accident occurred BEFORE the crossing, then it was the pedestrian who recklessly put his own health and others at risk by walking out, with his hands up saying &#8220;red light&#8221; &#8211; and he paid a high price for it.</p>

<p>I have ridden in the Hell Ride (it used to be called the Frankston Derby), and they are fast and dangerous. BUT there are not 200, and while they do 60 ks at times, that is the speed limit. A friend who was there that day, but didn&#8217;t see the accident, said they were slowing down for the light when some riders came round the outside, and it looks like Gould was hit then &#8211; but BEFORE the crossing. For manslaughter there has to be reckless conduct leading to death. No reckless conduct &#8211; then no manslaughter.</p>

<p>Now, the big issue is the media coverage. Sam Elder, the daughter of a good friend, was killed in January, hit from behind by a car travelling too close. She fell, he killed her. A genuine accident. Another young man, Anton Bartlett, was hit from behind the same day and died, and that was culpable driving &#8211; but their deaths each got one column inch on page 10.</p>

<p>James Gould&#8217;s death, apparently caused by his own reckless behaviour, got pages and pages of hysteria, police presence, puffing and blowing from Harry Barber and all the other social cyclists. If a cyclist had been killed as a result of this event, what would have been the reaction &#8211; we don&#8217;t have to wonder at all. One column inch on page 10.</p>

<p>We need balance. Two pedestrians, to my knowledge, have died being hit by a bicycle. One was a stupid person who stepped in front of a racing triathlete (I think Dean Woods from memory); the other was James Gould, and his facts are yet to come out. I think his story will fade away, and we will never hear the facts becuase it doesn&#8217;t make a good story. It will become an urban myth &#8211; but a completely wrong urban myth that does none of us any good whatsoever. All the time cyclists are being killed by cars &#8211; and on Beach Road we had people winding the window down and calling us &#8220;murderers&#8221;!!!</p>

<p>Pip</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Treadly and Me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>Treadly and Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=211#comment-300</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Firstly, I didn&#039;t say CSV&#039;s comments were great&#8212;I actually &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/#media-presence&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;criticised them&lt;/a&gt; for taking so long to make any kind of response.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Secondly, I didn&#039;t say SKCC were &quot;wonderful&quot; for organising a memorial ride. In fact I had &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/08/31/james-gould/#comment-1241&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;serious doubts&lt;/a&gt; about the wisdom of holding such an event, although I &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;later conceded&lt;/a&gt; that it had been treated positively by the media.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thirdly, I don&#039;t know who &quot;the git&quot; is, let alone whether he is a member of SKCC or CSV. I&#039;m not connected with either organisation, but for what it&#039;s worth (if he is a member) then I think those organisations should take whatever disciplinary steps they can. Presumably expulsion and license cancellation are both available options. But why ask me? Have you taken your query to SKCC and CSV?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And finally, I &lt;a href=&quot;/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/#media-presence&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;commended Melinda Jacobson&lt;/a&gt; on how well she came across in the media, and that&#039;s all. I don&#039;t know if her statements at the time were factual or if she deliberately omitted information. If &quot;the git&quot; is a SKCC member and if Ms Jacobsen knew that at that time, then I agree that it would have been wise and honest for her to say so.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, I didn&#8217;t say CSV&#8217;s comments were great&mdash;I actually <a href="/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/#media-presence" rel="nofollow">criticised them</a> for taking so long to make any kind of response.</p>

<p>Secondly, I didn&#8217;t say SKCC were &#8220;wonderful&#8221; for organising a memorial ride. In fact I had <a href="/2006/08/31/james-gould/#comment-1241" rel="nofollow">serious doubts</a> about the wisdom of holding such an event, although I <a href="/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/" rel="nofollow">later conceded</a> that it had been treated positively by the media.</p>

<p>Thirdly, I don&#8217;t know who &#8220;the git&#8221; is, let alone whether he is a member of SKCC or CSV. I&#8217;m not connected with either organisation, but for what it&#8217;s worth (if he is a member) then I think those organisations should take whatever disciplinary steps they can. Presumably expulsion and license cancellation are both available options. But why ask me? Have you taken your query to SKCC and CSV?</p>

<p>And finally, I <a href="/2006/09/04/more-media-on-the-hell-ride/#media-presence" rel="nofollow">commended Melinda Jacobson</a> on how well she came across in the media, and that&#8217;s all. I don&#8217;t know if her statements at the time were factual or if she deliberately omitted information. If &#8220;the git&#8221; is a SKCC member and if Ms Jacobsen knew that at that time, then I agree that it would have been wise and honest for her to say so.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 21:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=211#comment-299</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;so if CSV&#039;s comment is so feckin great, and SKCC are so damn wonderful for organising a lame memorial ride to (stifles laughter) &#039;vote on a code of conduct&#039;, which was a pisspoor way of basically saying &#039;We will, um, , err, abide by the ROAD LAWS&#039; that already exist!!!&quot;
and why are SKCC and CSV not canceling the git&#039;s membership and licence?
Rather hypocritcal of them to do a cheap PR stunt for themselves to grab some media attention and not even own up that the perpetrator is a feckin SKCC MEMBER!@$@#@#!$!$!$!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;i guess Melinda Jacobsen somehow forgot to mention  THAT  one!!!!
Chasing Ambulances isn&#039;t noble.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so if CSV&#8217;s comment is so feckin great, and SKCC are so damn wonderful for organising a lame memorial ride to (stifles laughter) &#8216;vote on a code of conduct&#8217;, which was a pisspoor way of basically saying &#8216;We will, um, , err, abide by the ROAD LAWS&#8217; that already exist!!!&#8221;
and why are SKCC and CSV not canceling the git&#8217;s membership and licence?
Rather hypocritcal of them to do a cheap PR stunt for themselves to grab some media attention and not even own up that the perpetrator is a feckin SKCC MEMBER!@$@#@#!$!$!$!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>i guess Melinda Jacobsen somehow forgot to mention  THAT  one!!!!
Chasing Ambulances isn&#8217;t noble.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wheels of Justice</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Wheels of Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=211#comment-298</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Treadly and Me: The death of a pedestrian makes hell for all riders [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Treadly and Me: The death of a pedestrian makes hell for all riders [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cfsmtb</title>
		<link>http://treadly.net/2006/08/31/james-gould/comment-page-1/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>cfsmtb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 05:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://treadly.thingoid.com/?p=211#comment-297</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Haha, I &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; being just a smidgen sarcastic regarding the media!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Intriguing how some people falsly believe the best form of advocacy is to merely placate or remain silent? Point blank: it isn&#039;t a wise direction. Far as I&#039;m concerned, be tactful, be moderate when necessary, but do not allow merely silence to our response to stupidity.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, I <i>was</i> being just a smidgen sarcastic regarding the media!</p>

<p>Intriguing how some people falsly believe the best form of advocacy is to merely placate or remain silent? Point blank: it isn&#8217;t a wise direction. Far as I&#8217;m concerned, be tactful, be moderate when necessary, but do not allow merely silence to our response to stupidity.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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